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  3. It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

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  • u_urbanU u_urban

    @neil

    Wo ist das Problem, dann muss man halt seinen Beitrag mit der Einstellung "Only Follower" veröffentlichen!
    Ist halt schade um die Möglichkeit seine Gedanken in größerer Runde auszutauschen und auf neue interessante Menschen zu treffen!
    Vielleicht hilft dann auch der Umzug auf eine andere, kleinere (?) Instanz.
    Oft lohnt sich auch die Kommunikation auf die Metaebene zu heben, konnte so schon manches Missverständnis klären!

    Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
    Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
    Neil Brown
    wrote last edited by
    #38

    @u_urban

    I suspect that the online translation I used is poor, as it makes it sound like you are trivialising the impact of these replies on women, and suggesting that the onus is on them (moving instance, or engaging differently) to solve the problem.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

      @tknarr It's all good 🙂

      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
      Todd Knarr
      wrote last edited by
      #39

      @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

      Ben S.H flere-imsaho 🇺🇦M 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

        @VSRT

        Welcome!

        The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

        A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

        ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
        ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
        Valentino
        wrote last edited by
        #40

        @neil oh I understand now, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me :))

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        • Alex HyettA Alex Hyett

          @neil that would be perfect. An “only allow replies from people you follow” option would help so much.

          Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
          Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
          Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️
          wrote last edited by
          #41

          @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

          So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

          I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.🤷🏼‍♀️

          Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

            It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

            Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

            MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
            MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
            Melissa
            wrote last edited by
            #42

            @neil
            I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. 😕

            Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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            • Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️

              @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

              So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

              I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.🤷🏼‍♀️

              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
              Neil Brown
              wrote last edited by
              #43

              @mlanger @alex

              > YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

              Indeed, I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting that it should be mandatory!

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • MelissaS Melissa

                @neil
                I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. 😕

                Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                Neil Brown
                wrote last edited by
                #44

                @Shewolfnm I'm so sorry - that is just awful 😞

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                • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                  @evdelen As you say, that is post visibility, not reply control.

                  Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
                  Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
                  Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️
                  wrote last edited by
                  #45

                  @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                  Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                    @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                    Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                    Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                    Ben S.
                    wrote last edited by
                    #46

                    @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                    The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                    Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️

                      @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                      Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                      Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                      Neil Brown
                      wrote last edited by
                      #47

                      @mlanger @evdelen

                      Great!

                      It is certainly *a* control here.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Ben S.H Ben S.

                        @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                        The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                        Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Todd Knarr
                        wrote last edited by
                        #48

                        @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                        Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                        Todd KnarrT Ben S.H 2 Replies Last reply
                        0
                        • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                          @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                          Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                          Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                          Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                          Todd Knarr
                          wrote last edited by
                          #49

                          @HunterZ @neil Email RBLs and browser ad blockers are vulnerable to the same abuses. If we adopted your policy, both would be abandoned. Nobody's stupid enough to propose that, though.

                          ... OK, Google is stupid enough to propose doing away with ad blockers, but look how well that idea was received.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                            @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                            Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                            Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                            Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                            Ben S.
                            wrote last edited by
                            #50

                            @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                            Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Ben S.H Ben S.

                              @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                              Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                              Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                              Todd Knarr
                              wrote last edited by
                              #51

                              @HunterZ @neil Did I say anything about it being at the instance level? No, I did not.

                              The use cases all involve decisions by individual users about which blocklists to subscribe to. It certainly _could_ be used by an instance admin, but we already give them that power by allowing instance-level blocking in the first place. The social issue there isn't subscribeable blocklilsts, it's having an instance admin you can't trust not to block people inappropriately by whatever mechanism.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️Y This user is from outside of this forum
                                Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️Y This user is from outside of this forum
                                Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️
                                wrote last edited by
                                #52

                                @neil remember when Mastodon asked for changes to be made to the interaction policies FEP specifically so they can opt out of implementing reply and boost control?
                                i remember.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                  @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                                  flere-imsaho 🇺🇦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  flere-imsaho 🇺🇦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  flere-imsaho 🇺🇦
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #53

                                  @tknarr @neil btw. that visibility setting is doing something very non-obvious, namely it's always interpreted per-message, which makes the actual thread audience completely unpredictable.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Signor Q. 🦩E Signor Q. 🦩

                                    @neil Can you in RL control who`s replying to words you said?

                                    flere-imsaho 🇺🇦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                    flere-imsaho 🇺🇦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                    flere-imsaho 🇺🇦
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #54

                                    @electricfusionQ @neil this is real life too, mon.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                      It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                      Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                      KrazovK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      KrazovK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Krazov
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #55

                                      @neil @mawhrin I saw it on Bluesky, and it seems to do the job.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                        Rachel (Toxic Femininity Arc)Y This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Rachel (Toxic Femininity Arc)Y This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Rachel (Toxic Femininity Arc)
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #56

                                        @neil ultimately, fedi's culture of men constantly centering themselves, reply-guying, being weird and condescending and creepy to women and fems, and so forth, is a social-cultural problem. and while better tools can help to shield us from the worst of it, you can't solve a social problem with technical solutions. in other words, it's the culture of misogyny that needs to change, or nothing will fundamentally change.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                          It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                          Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                          always tiredP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          always tiredP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          always tired
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #57

                                          @neil Women. Black people. Jews...

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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