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  3. It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

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  • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

    It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

    Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

    ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
    ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
    Valentino
    wrote last edited by
    #34

    @neil new here, what’s a β€œfedi”? I keep seeing this word but I can’t understand what it is

    Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

      It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

      Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

      @PrivacyMattersP This user is from outside of this forum
      @PrivacyMattersP This user is from outside of this forum
      @PrivacyMatters
      wrote last edited by
      #35

      @neil πŸ’―

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

        Tim ChambersT This user is from outside of this forum
        Tim ChambersT This user is from outside of this forum
        Tim Chambers
        wrote last edited by
        #36

        @neil @steter Agree that reply controls and β€œhide reply” in particular where it make reply invisible but commenter never knows - is crucial to build.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • ValentinoV Valentino

          @neil new here, what’s a β€œfedi”? I keep seeing this word but I can’t understand what it is

          Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
          Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
          Neil Brown
          wrote last edited by
          #37

          @VSRT

          Welcome!

          The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

          A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

          ValentinoV 1 Reply Last reply
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          • u_urbanU u_urban

            @neil

            Wo ist das Problem, dann muss man halt seinen Beitrag mit der Einstellung "Only Follower" verΓΆffentlichen!
            Ist halt schade um die Mâglichkeit seine Gedanken in grâßerer Runde auszutauschen und auf neue interessante Menschen zu treffen!
            Vielleicht hilft dann auch der Umzug auf eine andere, kleinere (?) Instanz.
            Oft lohnt sich auch die Kommunikation auf die Metaebene zu heben, konnte so schon manches MissverstΓ€ndnis klΓ€ren!

            Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
            Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
            Neil Brown
            wrote last edited by
            #38

            @u_urban

            I suspect that the online translation I used is poor, as it makes it sound like you are trivialising the impact of these replies on women, and suggesting that the onus is on them (moving instance, or engaging differently) to solve the problem.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

              @tknarr It's all good πŸ™‚

              Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
              Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
              Todd Knarr
              wrote last edited by
              #39

              @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

              Ben S.H flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                @VSRT

                Welcome!

                The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

                A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

                ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
                ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
                Valentino
                wrote last edited by
                #40

                @neil oh I understand now, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me :))

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • Alex HyettA Alex Hyett

                  @neil that would be perfect. An β€œonly allow replies from people you follow” option would help so much.

                  Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
                  Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
                  Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️
                  wrote last edited by
                  #41

                  @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

                  So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

                  I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.πŸ€·πŸΌβ€β™€οΈ

                  Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                    It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                    Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                    MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
                    MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
                    Melissa
                    wrote last edited by
                    #42

                    @neil
                    I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. πŸ˜•

                    Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️

                      @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

                      So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

                      I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.πŸ€·πŸΌβ€β™€οΈ

                      Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                      Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                      Neil Brown
                      wrote last edited by
                      #43

                      @mlanger @alex

                      > YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

                      Indeed, I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting that it should be mandatory!

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • MelissaS Melissa

                        @neil
                        I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. πŸ˜•

                        Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                        Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                        Neil Brown
                        wrote last edited by
                        #44

                        @Shewolfnm I'm so sorry - that is just awful 😞

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                          @evdelen As you say, that is post visibility, not reply control.

                          Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
                          Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
                          Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️
                          wrote last edited by
                          #45

                          @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                          Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                            @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                            Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                            Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                            Ben S.
                            wrote last edited by
                            #46

                            @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                            The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                            Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️

                              @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Neil Brown
                              wrote last edited by
                              #47

                              @mlanger @evdelen

                              Great!

                              It is certainly *a* control here.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Ben S.H Ben S.

                                @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                                The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                                Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                Todd Knarr
                                wrote last edited by
                                #48

                                @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                                Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                                Todd KnarrT Ben S.H 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                  @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                                  Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                                  Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Todd Knarr
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #49

                                  @HunterZ @neil Email RBLs and browser ad blockers are vulnerable to the same abuses. If we adopted your policy, both would be abandoned. Nobody's stupid enough to propose that, though.

                                  ... OK, Google is stupid enough to propose doing away with ad blockers, but look how well that idea was received.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                    @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                                    Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                                    Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Ben S.
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #50

                                    @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                                    Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Ben S.H Ben S.

                                      @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                                      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Todd Knarr
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #51

                                      @HunterZ @neil Did I say anything about it being at the instance level? No, I did not.

                                      The use cases all involve decisions by individual users about which blocklists to subscribe to. It certainly _could_ be used by an instance admin, but we already give them that power by allowing instance-level blocking in the first place. The social issue there isn't subscribeable blocklilsts, it's having an instance admin you can't trust not to block people inappropriately by whatever mechanism.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                        Talya (she/her) πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈβœ‘οΈY This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Talya (she/her) πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈβœ‘οΈY This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Talya (she/her) πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈβœ‘οΈ
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #52

                                        @neil remember when Mastodon asked for changes to be made to the interaction policies FEP specifically so they can opt out of implementing reply and boost control?
                                        i remember.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                          @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                                          flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                          flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                          flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #53

                                          @tknarr @neil btw. that visibility setting is doing something very non-obvious, namely it's always interpreted per-message, which makes the actual thread audience completely unpredictable.

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