Age Verification isn't a technical problem to solve.
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@divVerent You said the solution to your actual problem right there: ban these abusive platforms entirely. Or at least regulate them into not being able to do the really harmful things they do - to people of all ages. None of that has anything to do with policing children or policing whether users are adults.
@dalias@hachyderm.io But that's not gonna happen.
So next I at least don't want children to be confronted with this abuse.
The absolute minimum demand for technical changes to the internet I have is getting Do-Not-Track back. When set, platforms still must operate to its full extent but not perform any user behavior analysis for purposes such as content recommendation or targeted advertisement (they still should be allowed to track for abuse prevention but they must take and disclosure measures that such data is not used for any other purpose, not even used as training data for future AI models). -
@dalias@hachyderm.io But that's not gonna happen.
So next I at least don't want children to be confronted with this abuse.
The absolute minimum demand for technical changes to the internet I have is getting Do-Not-Track back. When set, platforms still must operate to its full extent but not perform any user behavior analysis for purposes such as content recommendation or targeted advertisement (they still should be allowed to track for abuse prevention but they must take and disclosure measures that such data is not used for any other purpose, not even used as training data for future AI models).@divVerent If you don't want them confronted with this, but it still exists, all you're doing is setting them up not to be equipped to deal with it once they do. And either way they're still stuck living in a world ruled by adults whose brains are rotted on this stuff. I get that this is all very unpleasant and people want an easy solution, but there is none short of attacking the root problem.
If you think hiding it from children (not with trojan internet passport schemes, which are a non starter, but as a parent or whatever) is best, you do you. I think educating and conveying values to them so that they can see the rot for what it is and be ready to protect themselves and fight it is probably better.
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@Em0nM4stodon It is big tech that's pushing for age verification, not governments. It already knows everything about the adult population, all of the time. But digital IDs will allow it to harvest all of our children's data too, from birth. The digital safety of our children is the responsibility of their parents, not big tech or government. Parents need look up from their own phones occasionally and look deeply at what their children are doing.
@ben @Em0nM4stodon this. Parents have to check what their Kid do and not someone else. Of course you can miss something but for this you can teach your Kid how to use the Internet right. We all had to learn this too.
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@0x4d6165 @Em0nM4stodon How is it bad faith? I am genuinely confused at why it's ok to have age checks in person but not online. The Internet might not be physical, but it's still real life with real people.
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@Em0nM4stodon What do you think of age verification in bars before they give you the alcohol? Or age verification before they let you in a sex convention. /gen
@Azarilh @Em0nM4stodon how about getting yourself blocked? /gen
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Age Verification isn't a technical problem to solve. If you think that, you're missing the point.
It's a social problem used by authoritarian governments as an excuse for population control and censorship.
It's a fundamental attack on free speech and democracy.
It must not be accommodated.
It must be stopped.#MassSurveillance #AgeVerification #Privacy #Democracy #HumanRights
@Em0nM4stodon the first person project could solve a lot of these things in a privacy preserving way - but it is a hard technical, social problem to solve. http://firstperson.network/ - I think we need the trust layer of the internet - but in a way that also solves privacy.
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@0x4d6165 @Em0nM4stodon How is it bad faith? I am genuinely confused at why it's ok to have age checks in person but not online. The Internet might not be physical, but it's still real life with real people.
@0x4d6165 @Em0nM4stodon I love when people block for having a genuine question, instead of having a productive conversation. /s
So silly. -
@Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange There are technical solutions without mass surveillance.
But I am not optimistic enough to believe those will be demanded.
Specifically because of the lack of surveillance, and the lack of monopoly protection for big tech.
Pretty sure big tech lobbyists are making sure the worst approaches possible get put into law. Not because they are evil per se, but because it strengthens their monopolies.You are missing the point.
Gatekeeping access is also a problem. It's the end of free speech and free access to information and the freedom to associate.
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@dalias@hachyderm.io But that's not gonna happen.
So next I at least don't want children to be confronted with this abuse.
The absolute minimum demand for technical changes to the internet I have is getting Do-Not-Track back. When set, platforms still must operate to its full extent but not perform any user behavior analysis for purposes such as content recommendation or targeted advertisement (they still should be allowed to track for abuse prevention but they must take and disclosure measures that such data is not used for any other purpose, not even used as training data for future AI models).@divVerent @dalias@hachyderm.io
The children will be confronted with so much if we don't solve issues with tech bros at the source.
And soon enough everything will seem small compared to the climate catastrophe, which those tech bros have a big part in.
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@divVerent @dalias@hachyderm.io
The children will be confronted with so much if we don't solve issues with tech bros at the source.
And soon enough everything will seem small compared to the climate catastrophe, which those tech bros have a big part in.
@divVerent And first results from Australia are in. Guess what. A net negative for kids.
It's not actually about kids in the first place.
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@0x4d6165 The methods they use are terrible but it can be done safely, look at EU's proposed app which would make the government check your age, not random private companies. And the government would simply tell the website "yes" or "no", without any identifiable information. So the problem would not persist. It's also open source.
Would you still be against that? If so, why?
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@0x4d6165 It's open source.
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@0x4d6165 It means people can check the code and see what it really does. It's supposed to simply give a yes or no, nothing else. Or do you think this is still corruptable?
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@0x4d6165 Very insightful...
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@0x4d6165 There already are digital ID systems like EU's proposal that are implemented by governments around the world. For instance, Sweden has it ( y'know, one of the most progressive countries in the world ), so does Denmark, Canada, etc. I don't see how they affected negatively anyone in particular.
I don't see "basics of authoritarianism" anywhere in here like USA is doing, where they censor queerness and spread disinformation to control people.
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Age Verification isn't a technical problem to solve. If you think that, you're missing the point.
It's a social problem used by authoritarian governments as an excuse for population control and censorship.
It's a fundamental attack on free speech and democracy.
It must not be accommodated.
It must be stopped.#MassSurveillance #AgeVerification #Privacy #Democracy #HumanRights
How to convince people of this though? My mother thinks that it's good to keep the children safe and we're not important enough for any authoritarian government to notice us. And that anyone who likes pornograpy is sick in the head. I can tell her "Uh, no," but that doesn't really accomplish anything... -
@Em0nM4stodon What do you think of age verification in bars before they give you the alcohol? Or age verification before they let you in a sex convention. /gen
@Azarilh Showing ID in person to another human is very different. It doesn't require to collect and keep a copy of it digitally, and therefore is an entirely different situation that isn't even comparable. It also doesn't gatekeep portals of information in the same way that digital age verification on the internet does.
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@Azarilh Showing ID in person to another human is very different. It doesn't require to collect and keep a copy of it digitally, and therefore is an entirely different situation that isn't even comparable. It also doesn't gatekeep portals of information in the same way that digital age verification on the internet does.
@Em0nM4stodon What about an open source solution that doesn't collect anything, and it simply tells the website "yes" or "no"?
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@0x4d6165 Just look up "sweden digital id".
We have eID here in Italy too, but it's not used for much.
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@0x4d6165 There already are digital ID systems like EU's proposal that are implemented by governments around the world. For instance, Sweden has it ( y'know, one of the most progressive countries in the world ), so does Denmark, Canada, etc. I don't see how they affected negatively anyone in particular.
I don't see "basics of authoritarianism" anywhere in here like USA is doing, where they censor queerness and spread disinformation to control people.
@Azarilh is right that there are age verification mechanisms that fully protect privacy and prevent sites requiring age verification from knowing the real-world identity of the user.
They can even be designed to prevent the authority providing the age verification from knowing what sites it's requested for.
More about this here: https://www.newamerica.org/oti/briefs/exploring-privacy-preserving-age-verification/
I'm not a fan of online age verification, but if governments are going to require it, we should be demanding that it be done this way.
@0x4d6165@transfem.social
